everyone counts

Thursday, July 07, 2005

A Fair Question (i guess)

I started blogging because a friend of mine kept talking about his own blogging experience. I checked out his site, and a site he highly recommended, and went from there. I soon discovered some distrubing things. Some people out there, including my friend in fact, were calling some of the things I held as true, heretical. And there were a lot of supposedly sincere Christians who seemed to take great pleasure blasting other supposedly sincere Christians. Yesterday, a commentor on another site, made a comment on one of my comments, asking just what wouldn't I allow in Church. He's actually put the question to me a few times, on the same site. And I woke up this morning thinking about it.
I am not a pastor. I am a pastor's wife. But we are currently not pastoring a church. I am my husband's partner in ministry. I have held various positions of leadership in several churches. As well as my extensive experience in Children's Ministry, I have taught/led seminars, women's retreats etc. I've been a teacher for 20 years, Christian Schools and Public Schools and Reservation Schools. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I am talking from experience. Although some people out there would doubt my salvation, I have been a Christian for 26 years.
So, what wouldn't I allow in Church? In what areas wouldn't I compromise?
Since my "ministry" is woven tightly with my husbands, I will explain what WE wouldn't allow, what we didn't allow, and in come cases, the consequenses of our unwillingness to compromise.
I ended up having take over the reigns of a large inner city Vacation Bible School, when our senior pastor removed from the position a woman who had led her daughters and some of her little friends in a seance at a sleep over. It wasn't a church event, but we couldn't allow a weekend spiritist to coordinate a church event. In the same Church, a very well loved youth leader was removed from her position when she decided to move in with her boyfriend. The woman was a very good friend of mine. She knew that I was on the committee that decided this matter, and she agreed with the decision. In the same church we made quite a few youth angry, because we wouldn't allow them to listen to secular rock music at a lock in.
As far as music goes, it has always been the lyrics, not the style that was the determining factor.
A few months in to my husbands first postition as an assistant pastor, 3 things happened nearly back to back, that led to his resignation from the church and our leaving the denomination. First, he wouldn't allow a professing Jehovah's Witness whose husband and children attended our church, teach a Sunday School Class. Second, at a Women's Ministry Meeting, I protested using any of our treasury money to support "Reproductive Rights" which meant promoting "free and safe abortions to third world countries". And the final straw, my husband made it perfectly clear to the ordination committee that he firmly believed that homosexuality and abortion were sins.
We have taken a stand against making "God language" gender neutral.
I interupted a class on stress management because the instructor was leading us in meditative yoga exercises to the back ground music of chanting, and she had no idea what was being chanted on her tapes.
We were "relieved" from duty in a church because we were opposed to taking the youth to a Sunday evening church service where the kids were into holy laughing, holy barking, and even holy puking. We had gone once, and our kids were really confused and upset by it. In the name of unity, and because our senior pastor had dilussions of becoming a mega "Spirit Filled" church, he insisted they give it another try. We wouldn't.
What wouldn't we allow in church?
Leaders and Teachers who do not believe in the Triune Godhead, Father Son Holy Spirit, who do not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, crucified for our sins, resurrected and coming again. Who do not hold to the Bible as the living and true word of God.
There would be no communing with the dead, no spiritism, no actions or substances to alter the state of consciousness.
Medidtation would be an exercise in focusing on God and His truth, not in emptying ones mind.
There would be no sexual impurity among the leaders, and no hint of it.
Modest dress...not too short, too tight, too low cut, too saggy.
Men would not counsel women alone, nor would women counsel men alone.
There would be solemn assemblies and joyful celebrations.
People would be encouraged to invest their gifts and talents in Kindgom building. Singers would sing, drummers would drum, dancers would dance with
banners, tamborines, glory hoops
Artists would create visual metaphors to help illustrate spiritual truths.
There would be a time and place for drama.
Rocks, water, candles, incense, sheep, bread, a fish net, the fruit of the vine, coins, nails and a crown of thornes. All props that we have used, that we would continue to use.
And you would be welcome...
regardless of how you dressed, how you smelled, how you sin
and you would be free
to speak in tongues, to fall on your face before the mighty creator of the univerese, to cry or laugh, to sit or stand...
mercy would triumph over justice, Jesus would set you free, the Holy Spirit would convict and restore...The word of God would be preached with wisdom and understanding, God would be worshiped in spirit and truth...
amem

13 comments:

Kim said...

I love this post. I would be delighted to attend your church, MaryEllen. God Bless you and your ministry.

Anonymous said...

Amazing post...thank you once again for sharing your heart. Keep following the path that God is leading you on and you'll always be satisfied.

Chris P. said...

Maryellen,

Who, in actuality, has called you a heretic? As for sincere believers slamming other sincere believers, I am content to let the day of the Lord manifest who is really a believer. Even speaking the Truth in love is called sin in these days.

Arthur Brokop II said...

a few commenters on slice have refered to me as a new age mystic,
pagan, and have called my beliefs
heretical. logic, if what i believe is heretical, than aren't I a heretic...welcom home!

Rick said...

thanks for the "heretical" views :)

Wanderer said...

Your principles are very well defined here, and I admire you for standing by them. It sounds like your church would be a wonderful place to worship, a true house of God. I would love to see it come into fruition, even if I in fact would not be welcome.

Arthur Brokop II said...

Of course you would be welcome...i have nothing against tattoos...
what part of what i said would make you think you wouldn't be????

Wanderer said...

The simple fact that we walk different paths would make me unwelcome in the church you described, and I did not mean that as any complaint. Moreover, I was impressed by the faith and the strong principles you uphold, despite the fact that my position is one that I found slightly different, and you would undoubtedly see as more so.
There are several specific points in which I would disagree with you, but I would urge you to take the opinion with a grain of salt due to an explanation that will follow.

You hold strongly that abortion and homosexuality are sins. I applaud this. I agree that the choice, or the feeling of need, to have an abortion is unfortunate. I do not agree with your stance on homosexuality though. We have separate positions on that issue and I am not seeking to inflame anyone.

However the bigger separation of why I would sensibly not be welcome to your church is your tenants on the triune God and the Bible being the holy word of the same. The primary reason your church would not be the one for me, is that while you have been called a pagan for the sake of your Christian beliefs, I in fact am a Pagan without the same. I've hinted at this on the posts on my blog, without being more specific because most who visit know, and I didn't think to do so.

The comment about my not being welcome was meant to reference the fact that while my faith path and yours are not the same, your post has greatly impressed me with the strength of your faith and of the spirit alive within you. It was certainly not a criticism any more than it would be for a Jewish man to state that he too would not be joining you on Sundays.

Arthur Brokop II said...

Wanderer, understood...
ofcourse, you could still visit anytime and in all honesty, not that I am saying this in any prophetic or superior way...
when I was your age, my comments would have been very similar to the ones you just made...
Actually, what you have shared, and what you are writing on your post proves one of the points I have made earlier on this site...about seeking God, there are many people out there, who have not gone the Jesus way, but who are very spiritual, and are activly seeking Truth, or Enlightenment, in essance God. Being a Christiian, I do believe that truth is not a concept, nor is it relative...Truth is Jesus, in the same way that God is Love...And the Bible is His way of revealing Himself to His most loved creation...humankind. Unfortunately, humankind has used God and His Holy Word to justify a great deal of evil, and many Christians are doing a terrible job of being Christians. I hope, even though distance prevents you from visiting our church...we don't exactly have one yet anyway, I hope you continue to visit my site as I will yours. And I trust, at least here, you will not be blasted for expressing your opinion.

Wanderer said...

Your welcome is greatly appreciated. I suspect that you are right in that our motivations and desires on our spiritual paths are very similar. Of course I will continue to visit your site, as I have found it quite insightful too frequent to easily stop.

Blessings to you and yours, and I hope everything is well with all of you. As for myself, I am off to enjoy the wonderful cooking associated with my wife's family's "Everything happens in the beginning of July" celebration.

Rob said...

Maryellen,

Thanks for your post. I've never doubted your orthodoxy anyway, but way to go with posting this.

Anonymous said...

Maryellen, I have been visiting Slice blog, and have noticed that everyone is assuming that there is something sacred about the church building, and the day that is assigned to it as primary worship. I do not see this in the New Covenant, and I think even the Reformers have ignored this major scriptural truth. Jesus did away with the need for any intermediary, building, or routine to worship Him, as long as it is done in Spirit and Truth; and Loving the Father with all our heart, mind, and souls, and loving our neighbors as we would ourselves.

It is probably that arrogance of correctness that most Reformers purvey with their noble traditions of dead men like Jonathan Edward, and John Calvin.

The you for providing an opportunity to voice my thoughts.

Arthur Brokop II said...

many thanks to all of you for you comments. i have some serious business to attend to, and i have some traveling to do...pray for me if you feel led...i really need it!