I Kings 18:1
"Now it came about, after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year saying, "Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the Earth"
On February 6 this year I was sitting in church and our guest speaker, a very charasmatic Native American preacher, used this verse to open his 4 day revival.
It made me smile at the time, because my little grandson Elijah would be celebrating his third birthday this year, and I flipped ahead in my calendar to May 29, and wrote: 1Kings 18:1 - is it raining today?
It isn't, yet. It hasn't rained in Shiprock for quite a few weeks, but the rivers are flooding because of the hot weather in the mountians, and there are clouds in the sky. Anyway, we celebrated the beginning of Elijah's third year today, and when I look back over the past 3 years I can hardly believe I'm still here to write about it. It was three years ago today that my little grandson was born. My daughter in law has proved to be quite a disappointment, but she did let me be in the delivery room and I will always be grateful to her for that. The day Elijah was born was the day that I found out for sure, without a doubt, that my own dear first born, Elijah's Uncle Ardy, would be spending some time in prison. The best of times, the worst of times. So began the darkest season of my life. So began the passage through the hottest refiners fire I ever experienced. And it was my sweet (and now a days very naughty) grandson that literally kept my heart beating.
I have a question, I doubt my exdaughter in law will ever speak to me again, at least not about important things...but she weighs heavy on my heart and so I have a question about her salvation. When she was 17 she gave birth to a beautiful little girl in a Christian home for unwed mothers. Her parents had demanded she have an abortion, and even though she was about as far from being a Christian as anyone can be at the time, she would't kill her baby. She was saved at the home. She was a Christian when my son married her. He gave the prospect a lot of thought, being fully aware of the added responsiblity he was accepting for a 18 month old baby that wasn't his own. They had a lot going against them, but my boy was a pretty strong Christian, so I thought he'd be able to pull it off through the grace of God. He is the only daddy that this little angel ever knew. He was planning to adopt her before school started...and he is still very much a part of her life...but her mom had an affaire, shortly after the birth of Elijah. She dropped the kids off at her parents home and took off. I won't share any more of the details, but where she stands now, she says that she must not have ever been saved afterall, that she was predestined to have this affaire and she is predestined to hell. She doesn't feel that she has to confess this sin, because God planned for it to happen so it isn't her fault. Could this be right? Do I go with once saved always saved, or was it impossible for her to really be saved because she was predestined for damnation. I have my own answers. But, as scarey as it is, I'd like to present this question here for comments. Maybe, if I get any responses, after a while, I will write how I answer this question. Anyway, God is good, and Elijah is three years old, and there is a miracle on the horizon, getting closer...glory be to God in the highest!
9 comments:
The first thing I noticed about this post was:
My daughter in law has proved to be quite a disappointment.
And I couldn’t help thinking, how often do people say something similar about me? Just change it to “my daughter”, “my friend”, “my step daughter” etc. It’s one of the worst feelings in the world. It’s akin to displeasure, regret, and irritation.
she weighs heavy on my heart
…as I have on many others- being a burden to them and weighing them down with so much so that many Christian “friends” have given up on me. Sometimes it seems like they think it’s up to them to “fix me”, and when they see that they can’t, they give up. But salvation/redemption/healing is not their job. Love is their job.
and so I have a question about her salvation.
And I have many questions also, like “Why did my mom marry my abusive stepfather who claims to be a Christian? Is he really saved? How could You let this happen to us?” …but sometimes the answers aren’t easy or straightforward. Worse, sometimes the answers aren’t for us to know. God doesn’t say don’t ask- I think he wants us to ask, but so often he answers with something totally different from what we were looking for in the beginning. When I started asking God these things, I was confronted with these words that have haunted me for the past year: 2 Cor 2:5-11
Forgive him? Impossible. Yeah. “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
Her parents had demanded she have an abortion
Doesn’t seem like she has much support or love from anyone. –In fact, it sounds like she doesn’t deserve it. But she needs it. Kinda like us and God…
I thought he'd be able to pull it off through the grace of God.
The thing about grace is- it’s not about us pulling it off. We can’t. The power is all God’s. The love, the forgiveness, the grace- it’s all His, and it all comes through Him.
This might not be what you want to hear right now- and if you're frustrated, tell/ask God. He might not give you the answers you are looking for, but you know He will lead you in the right direction. I’ll just end with a prayer that I’ve been saying a lot lately…
O Lord, You will take up my case; You will redeem my life. You have seen the wrong done to me. Uphold my cause! (Lam 3:58-59) Lord, help me to see that when You are upholding my cause, I don’t have to. Help me to lay this burden down and let You carry it instead.
thanks to all three of you!
each comment was helpful to me.
i know that it my place to lovingly forgive what she did to my son and what she continues to do to my sweet grand children. I relate a lot to the little girl, my dear grand daughter, because I was just her age when my parents broke up. I confess that I am harboring a great deal of resentment toward the mom and her parents, who have custody of the kids. my son won't fight, being willing to bow down to their whims and wishes although he could probably get custody of Elijah, he would loose contact with Amadaya, and he loves her as if she were his own. I guess I presented this case, because when I hear those predestination debates, and then hear my ex daughter in law use that as an excuse to indulge her every desire and even flaunt her sin, as if she is only following God's predestined will for her life...it's one thing to spout theological theories and another thing to experience the consequences of it first hand.
and Kate, I too was a great disappointment to many people in the past. good little maryellen fell so far before she was caught and restored by the LORD. and even in my redeemed state, I sometimes disappoint, let down, frustrate people in my life.
I know it doesn't sound that way, because of the anger and the resentment my words about this young woman convey, but she weighs heavily on my heart because I don't want her to be eternally lost in the dark...
Maryellen,
What is the difference between someone who says I am predestined for damnation, so I will sin, and someone says the more sin abounds grace abounds, so I will sin?
There is a difference between theological theories and actual Biblical doctrine.
This young woman is manipulating others and thinks she is manipulating God. If God allows us to make any and all decisions, and He willingly abides by them, then she has chosen her path. No one who is truly headed for a Christless eternity would even care to use pre-destination as an argument.
As always we are in prayer with you and Art.
the answer to my most pressing question seems to be, it is possible to come to the cross, say the sinner's prayer, weep at the foot of the cross, and name the name of Jesus, but in the end, actually be predestined to damnation...
oh, but that sounds so harsh...
sorry, i'm in a bit of a cynical mood today.
Maryellen,
My brother's daughter (my niece) is similarily throwing her life away, but unlike your daughter-in-law, she isn't using predestination as an excuse.
I don't believe one can come to the Cross and still be predestined to hell. Some would argue that she was "obviously" never a Christian in the first place, but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to pronounce such judgment on her.
I agree with Kate -- forgiveness is a powerful weapon in the spiritual warfare that is being waged over your son, your daughter-in-law, and dear little Elijah. Keep praying, and don't give us! (Luke 18:1-8)
Maryellen,
The answer to your question is:
it is possible to come to the cross, say the sinner's prayer, weep at the foot of the cross, and name the name of Jesus, but in the end, actually never had a true conversion.
The churches are full of people who weep, and pray, and walk the walk, and talk the talk and do not know the first thing about being a "new creation"
God would not "predestine" for damnation someone whom He called to a genuine new birth.
If God elects and condemns through predestination, and He is perfect in every way, then He would never choose someone, and then later change the predestined fate of that individual. It is not consistent with His character as revealed in His Word.
1 John 4:19
chris,
i have heard it said that no one seeks God, no one comes to the father, unless the father calls,
and if you are able to doubt your salvation and fret over it than you are saved, that no one seeks the light when they are lost in the dark, all that kind of stuff...no time to look up direct quotes now, but some of them are yours...so whats with the person who comes but really doesn't come, but actually believes that he (she) has come, but wasn't really saved because she was predestined for damnation...
i'm being stuburn here...i just do not believe in predestination, or divine election, i believe in both the sovereignty of God and in Free will...i see no contradiction in that, although there are some mysterious elements there...
i do not believe that God knows before their conception which person will go to heaven and which will go to hell.
maryellen,
you said:
"i do not believe that God knows before their conception which person will go to heaven and which will go to hell"
Then how would you explain this from Psalm 139?
13For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there were none of them.
Also Jesus called us the elect (Luke 18:7-8) and we could not be called that unless we were "elected"
This is young lady is one of those
that Hebrews 6:4-8 is talking about. I have never denied that we make free choices. God does have complete foreknowledge or He is not God.
I am not trying to be a pain in the .... so bear with me here.
i'm not doing too good today,
you are not being a pain...
but this is how I answer psalm 139,
which is one of my favorites...
God has a plan for every child born. A perfect plan, a righteous plan. This even goes for Hitler and Manson, etc. He sees in each soul a person worth dying for. And He interacts with each person, calls each person, is the author of their lives, but they have a choice. He never forces His will on them. He never gives up on them until the last breathe, even when they fall into complete darkness, he continues to call to them...but it is their choice. He knows every possible choice they will make, and every consequence of each choice they will have to make. But until that choice is made, he does not know...he chose not to know...I do not think that limits God's sovreignty, or His all knowingness, I think it expands it beyond human understanding, although Gene Rodenbarry seemed to glimpse it in his concept of alernate universes. That is why we read in Genesis 6:6 that He was sorry that He had made man on the earth...In Noah's day, all men were making the "wrong" choices...good thing for us that Noah found favor in His eyes...
by the way, I think that the elect mentioned in the gospels and epistals were God's "chosen" people, the jews, and since most Bible commentaries, up until a few years back, were written by anti semtics (my typing and spelling are really bad here, like I said, I'm not doing that good today) anyway, since they were written by people who hated the jews (including Luther), they needed to come up with another interpretation of elect...since they couldn't admit it was referring to the people group who God set aside through which to bring about His greatest act of mercy. This has something to do with classic replacement theology, but I don't have the where with all to go there today...
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