theologically speaking:
Quick study of 1st Timothy.
With three versions at my elbow: the NCV, NIV, and (oh sacrilege) The Message. The heading in one of the versions says: Advice to a young preacher, and although I’m sure that anyone can receive enlightenment from reading this, as well as any other book of the Bible, it probably should be noted that this is written to a church leader, not the congregation in general. A certain amount of maturity and authority would be presupposed as Paul writes to his young disciple, so perhaps some of this would be “over the head” of a new believer.
The goal of “this command” is love. Pure heart, good conscience and a sincere faith. Has anyone else noticed that when someone points to LOVE as a main issue, they get shot down by some “theologian” who wants to explain that we really don’t understand what LOVE means, Biblically speaking, and doctrine is really much more than LOVE (the two greatest commandments according to Jesus). I should think that verse 1:7 should humble some of us bloggers.
“They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.”
“They set themselves up as experts on religious issues, but haven’t the remotest idea of what they are holding forth with such imposing eloquence”
“They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand either what they are talking about or what they are sure about.”
It brings to mind the warning that we should not all seek to be teachers. And also that we should study to show ourselves approved.
Ah the good ol’ (new) Message goes on to say: It’s true, moral guidance and counsel need to be given, but the way you say it, and to whom you say it are as important as what you say.
And then, as clearly as anywhere else, is the gospel stated, called a true, trustworthy saying: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners! And do you hear the choir singing?
“Now to the King eternal, immortal, invincible…the only wise God”
And, there it is, Chapter Two – pray for everyone – that is EVERYONE, and verse 4: (God) who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (niv) who wants all people to be saved and to know the truth (ncv) and
He wants, not only us, but everyone saved, you know, everyone to get to know the truth that we know: that there is one God and only one! And one priest mediator between us and God, Jesus, who offered himself in exchange for everyone held captive by sin, to set them all free. (the message)
A few posts down, just beyond my whining laments, I pasted a portion from a Wesleyan Commentary concerning everyone’s favorite hot topic, personal predestination. As a result of that post I’ve made a new blog acquaintance – Kevin, who like myself and Pastor Art and Arthur B. Roberts, is of the Wesleyan, persuasion. We are not alone! Neither are we without Biblical support for certain doctrinal stands that we take. Well, I need to get on home. We’re having company tonight, and I know that when I get home I’m not going to feel much like typing, so I stayed after work to get this written.
I’m not done with First Timothy yet, but I just flipped to the end of the book in the Message:
“Avoid the talk show religion and the practiced confusion of the so called experts. People caught up in a lot of talk can miss the whole point of faith”
You gotta love it!
6 comments:
Hey Maryellen,
When I was taking a few seminary courses a couple of years ago (updating my M.A. so I could start at doctorate degree), I kept bugging my professors who knew Greek really well about the Message.
They typically said, after explaining the Greek, that the Message is a pretty accurate translation, despite what some people seem to think.
Let's see "talk show religion" a pretty "accurate" translation for a time in history when there was no talk shows.
The question is who is Paul talking about and why?
Love is never defined Biblically.
We define it as tolerating everything, everyone, and every viewpoint. Unfortunately that would make God/Jesus most unloving as He has never done, and never will do any such thing. Also those who demand tolerance for themselves never seem to be able to reciprocate.
It seems that Paul is being quite dogmatic and authoritative in all of his letters, but of course we aren't Paul (are we?), so we cannot be dogmatic or authoritative. This would then elevate the apostles to some kind of higher level than us. Never mind that we have the same Holy Spirit, and the same revelation that he had/has.(The elevation of Bible characters above the rest of the saints is distinctly an rc trait.)
Our "loving" Father has left us to wallow in today's postmodern slime, to figure it out on our own. Let God be true and let EVERY man be a liar.
"Our 'loving' Father has left us to wallow in today's postmodern slime, to figure it out on our own. Let God be true and let EVERY man be a liar."
So then, it is to be understood that these statements that you and others make as absolutes (claiming direct influence of the Holy Spirit) are in fact wrong? (You as every man being a liar.) And that those of us who have been working on figuring it out on our own are actually correct in doing so?
One of the things that I am constantly battling in a discussion of Holiness, Sanctification, Perfect Love, or any other topic such as you find in 1st Timothy is that I AM NOT the measuring stick. That is certainly key to remeber when we discuss these matters. Paul says in Philipians 3:12, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." Thank you for spurring us farther along than we were yesterday.
I wish I had the time right now to comment on your comments (all).
I'm not ignoring you, but the next few hours are going to be pretty hectic, the quitting bell is gonna ring in one minute and I have to fly.
just a few quick bites:
translation or interpretation of concepts?
anyone out there defining love as tolerating everything and anything???what about that (gag me) old saying, love the sinner, hate the sin?
let every man be a liar? what really? remember Spock and Mudd's women? Everything I say is a lie. I am lying!
I thought lying was against the 10 commandments, not to mention the warning about being a false teacher...but oh yeah, since we aren't under the law we can feel free to break the ten commandments...no, forget that
actually Wanderer, for a pagan, you seem to be pretty "correct" in you approach to truth, you remind me of the Bereans (sp) gotta go guys...later!
Does the Bible define love? I would have to say "Yes". In many places actually, but 1 Corinthians 13 comes to mind..."love is-"
Is it important, this Christian Love that the liberals urge (ie the social gospel)? ofcourse it is!
Is it the most important thing? Well the "great commission" in Matthew 28, to make disciples includes teaching them to obey the commands that Jesus gave us, which are to Love God and Love our Neighbor (who is our neighbor?). Most of you are Biblically literate to find those verses on you own so I will leave it at that.
As far as The MESSAGE goes, I would never use it as my study Bible, and I would never suggest that anyone use it as their only Bible, but it does have a way with words. As far as accurate translations, the Old King James Version (bless those KJV only brothers and sisters) includes the words unicorn and dragon (and not just in Revelation or referring to Satan). It also mentions corn, which ofcourse was unknown to the people of the Bible. The arguement is that the HOLY SPIRIT can use any version of the WORD to get His message across...even The Message.
"and every man a liar?" Romans 4:3 - gotta study that one a bit. One of those verses that seems to contradict...
kjkeb - thanks for reminding us that none of us are there yet...
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